To: QRP-L Mailing List Subject: [QRP-L] Antennas in Trees From: Craig LaBarge Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 09:46:28 -0400 Hey there! I might be opening the flood gates with this topic but here goes... I've been operating QRP-portable for decades and about 90% of my HF operating is done that way. The one thing I never liked about operating portable was getting lines up into trees. It's a skill I have never perfected. Because of that, I usually tend to go with self-supporting antennas, which are not always convenient when you're trying to travel light. I've used water bottles, softballs, fishing weights, etc. (The local parks probably still have some of these hanging in their trees!) So, what's your best advice? 1. What weights/lines do you prefer? 2. What throwing technique do you use? Overhand? Underhand? David & Goliath? etc... (Note: Slingshots, spud guns and the like are technically illegal in Pennsylvania state parks.) OK. So, let 'er rip! Thanks, 72, Craig WB3GCK ------ To: QRP-L Mailing List Subject: Re: [QRP-L] Antennas in Trees From: John Evans Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 07:49:18 -0600 pneumatic launcher - works great, can be home built, and has other uses. 72 - john - n0hj ------- To: QRP-L Mailing List Subject: Re: [QRP-L] Antennas in Trees From: Eric Forman Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 10:05:21 -0400 Get yourself an arborist throw bag and a spool of "slick line". They're used by arborists specifically for throwing chain saws up into trees to cut high branches and the line used with them is designed to not get stuck. Then practice, man...practice. Here's a good video on basic technique: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwHwb0xcPWY Eric Forman ------ To: QRP-L Mailing List Subject: Re: [QRP-L] Antennas in Trees From: Bob Baxter Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 07:05:19 -0700 Too bad, this works for me---http://www.joplin-arc.org/#clubstore It puts my wire over the tallest trees we have around here and helps support the Joplin club. Bob aa7eq ------ To: QRP-L Mailing List Subject: Re: [QRP-L] Antennas in Trees From: "Mike Olbrisch" Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 08:29:07 -0600 A multitude of stuff. If hanging my AN/GRA-50 dipole set for 80m or lower, I use surplus para-cord with lead weights on the ends. If hanging my super-light EFHWA, I use thin arborists line and a small throw-bag. http://www.treestuff.com/ Throw-line: http://www.treestuff.com/store/products.asp?category_id=6 For me, lighter is better..... For throwing weights, I like these: http://www.wesspur.com/Throw-line/throw-bags.html?gclid=CNfA9Of6kLgCFWNp7Aod 1gMApQ&whence= I use the 4 oz bumblebee. Throwing method.... if it needs to go far, overhand like a pitcher. For better accuracy (less distance), underhand. Underhand also works better in tight situations. In many situations, trees are not available, and wire radials are a danger (like at DOG shows). So increasingly I find myself using an Alex-Loop and a tripod. Hope it helps. Vy73 - Mike - KD5KC. ------ To: QRP-L Mailing List Subject: Re: [QRP-L] Antennas in Trees From: Phil Wheeler Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 07:40:11 -0700 Hockey Puck. Phil W7OX ------ To: QRP-L Mailing List Subject: Re: [QRP-L] Antennas in Trees From: Leon Heller Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 15:43:01 +0100 When I was helping a couple of our more experienced members to put up our club antenna, which was hung from a couple of trees, a collapsible fishing pole (the sort that is often used for an antenna support) was used to free the weight when it got stuck, and to move the line to a better position. 73, Leon ------ To: QRP-L Mailing List Subject: Re: [QRP-L] Antennas in Trees From: Bob Nelson via QRP-L Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 07:54:31 -0700 If the wind is not blowing too hard, would not a radio-controlled drone be the easiest way to get a line over a tree? If you checked out the model-airplane club near you, you might find a man who has just the right aircraft for the job. Heck, you might even find yourself buying or building one. Bob, K6KL ------ To: QRP-L Mailing List Subject: Re: [QRP-L] Antennas in Trees From: "Mike Olbrisch" Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 09:31:58 -0600 Unless you are in to the hobby, a $300 or more (much more) aircraft just to hang an antenna is pretty steep. . I have one of those quad-copter toys. It won't lift an antenna wire, or even a long string, and cost $60. Fun toy, drives the Great Danes nutz!!! But it will not lift anything into a tree. That takes a much larger unit. http://www.amazon.com/Nano-QX-BNF-with-SAFE/dp/B00CYHZTDK/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8 &qid=1406647860&sr=8-3&keywords=nano+quadcopter ------ To: QRP-L Mailing List Subject: Re: [QRP-L] Antennas in Trees From: brianb Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 07:44:22 -0700 80 lb dacron fishing line. Local rock or soil in bag tied at end. Underhand for less than 33 ft. Davids fechnique for 66 ft. Brian n6iz ------ To: QRP-L Mailing List Subject: Re: [QRP-L] Antennas in Trees From: "Dyarnes" Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 08:05:00 -0700 Craig, Several options, and I've tried most of them. A decent slingshot works O.K., but only good to maybe 30 feet high or so. Some folks do better than that. There is a "super" slingshot, for launching tennis balls (primarily intended for playing with your dog), that will go somewhat higher--you put a few pennies inside the tennis ball for added weight. the one I have is called "Hyper-Dog". I've also used spinning rods and reels (I prefer a true spinning reel (open bale)), but that takes some practice. It isn't too good with trees having a lot of excess foliage, but it does go higher than the slingshot method. The "real deal" are these pneumatic launchers. You can make one yourself, or buy one from a couple of places. They are a bit dangerous, though, if not really well constructed. One that is well constructed will launch well over 100 feet, which is more than enough in most cases. Some folks just use a bottle filled with water. That works, but it never seemed all that satisfactory to me. Maybe I'm just too weak! Hi. A big part of the secret is picking the right tree, and the right limb! Most of my frustrations comes from interfering limbs surrounding the one I really want to use. So, try and pick a limb that is reasonably clear of obstructions. Sometimes that is easier said than done. Using the right line is important too, but several types work. I like fly line or "spyder" line. I've also used small diameter nylon cord. There are many options, and others may have even better ideas. Dave W7AQK Vy73 - Mike - KD5KC. ------ To: QRP-L Mailing List Subject: Re: [QRP-L]Antennas in Trees From: "Jerry Haigwood" Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 11:51:12 -0500 Hi Dave and Craig, I have one of the pneumatic launchers (AKA "spud gun"). I have found the trick is to shoot the line over the top of the tree. Once I pull the rope up and the antenna, I find the canopy of the tree acts as a "spring" which allows the antenna to sway in the wind but not break anything. It also makes getting the antenna up faster since you are not trying to place the line over any certain limb. It works for me, give it a try. Jerry W5JH ------ Subject: Re: [QRP-L] Antennas in Trees From: Michael Babineau Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 11:23:09 -0400 Craig et al : One alternative trick that I have come up with is to utilize a fiberglass mast like a DK9SQ as an aid in putting a wire antenna up, rather than just as a support. This will only get your antenna up about 40 feet (depends on mast height) but that may be enough. I fashion a U-shaped hook out of a piece of coat hanger and tape it to the tip of the mast. I drape lightweight line with a small weight over the U-hook and then standing near the base of the target tree I extend the mast. Then I pull the weight up, lift the base of the mast to get some extra height, step back from the tree a bit, position the tip of the mast over the top of a selected branch and let the weight drop. This works quite well with trees that have very dense foliage that tend to eat fishing weights/line for breakfast ;-) There tends to be much fewer small branches and leaves in close to the trunk so it makes manoeuvring the extended mast easier. Yes, it does require hauling around a fiberglass mast, but instead of settling for an inverted vee, I can now get both ends of the antenna up so I have a flattop and if necessary I can still use the mast in the center to support the feed line. I personally have found this technique to be much less frustrating than “tree fishing”. A 44 or 88 ft doublet works ok as an inverted vee but it performs much better with both ends up. Michael VE3WMB P.S. I like using a small wrench as weight. I attach the closed end to fishing line using an elastic, so if things get caught up somehow I can usually just pull until the elastic breaks and then recover both the line and the wrench. ------ To: qrp-l Subject: Re: [QRP-L] Antennas in Trees From: EricJ Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 10:54:17 -0700 I do something similar but with some special hooks. I can't take credit for these. Someone else sells them, but I can't find a link. A friend described them on the phone and I made them up a few years ago. If it isn't clear from the photo, that's one piece of wire with a large hook at one end and the smaller more closed hook at the other end. PVC can be 1/2" or 3/4". I had 3/4 on hand. 1/2 would be fine in most cases. https://www.flickr.com/photos/52936753@N04/14591733068/ You hook the antenna ends onto the small hooks at the bottom. Then you stick a fiberglass mast or your tent poles in the bottom of the PVC, hoist it into the air and hook the large end over a tree limb. Take it down the same way--stick the pole into the pvc and unhook from branch. The large hook is shaped that way so that it easily hooks over almost any size branch and, if you have trouble getting it down, a tug on the antenna will spring the hook enough that it will come off the branch. You might have to reshape it, but it's only copper. They work well in the heavily forested areas in the mountains where I camp. These are National Forest campgrounds that don't allow ANY kind of projectiles to be used for any purpose. No arrows, no slingshots, no pneumatic spud guns, etc. This solved the problem for me. Eric KE6US ------ To: "qrp-l Subject: Re: [QRP-L] Antennas in Trees From: Cory Klumper Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 10:34:25 -0500 My main hobby before getting into radio was fishing so I repurposed some gear. I've found attaching a racquetball to the end of the line on my catfish pole does a great job. Smaller weights tend to disappear after a good long toss, no matter what color I've painted them. For end supports I can just drop it over (my 8' reach + 6' of catfish pole). For tall jobs it will fling accurately to about 50' if the tree isn't surrounded. The 30lb catfish line has no problem pulling the Dacron rope. I'm sure a spud gun would work better, but a complete catfish rig like this one can be had at your local Chinese merchandise distributor for about $30. It's perfectly fine in state parks and you can catch dinner! 72, Cory Klumper NØECK ------ To: qrp-l Subject: Re: [QRP-L] Antennas in Trees From: R & B Barch Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 13:22:12 -0800 I use my magic antenna raising wrench, a 7/8 inch combination wrench, tied to an unspooled hank of Home Depot 5/32 inch polypropolene cord. Simple and effective. Dick Barch W1MII ------ To: qrp-l Subject: [QRP-L] Antennas in Trees From: Fran Flynn Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 21:44:03 -0500 I know you can't do this in all situations, but no one has mentioned using a bow and arrow so far. I found an old hunting bow at a garage sale a few years ago. You tape a couple of AA batteries to the forward end of a cheap arrow, tie some fishing line to the flute end (the end with the little feather thingies) and shoot it up into a tree. If you're lucky, you can find the arrow after it falls to the ground (luck again) and use it to pull some rope over the top of a tree. 73, Fran Flynn KM1Z/4 ------ To: QRP-L Mailing List Subject: Re: [QRP-L] Antennas in Trees From: Bob Nelson via QRP-L Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2014 20:18:37 -0700 Strange. Mine will lift 4 oz of nylon fishing line. Enough to pull up a stronger line, followed by an even stronger one, and then the antenna wire. Of course that assumes no wind. . . . A bow and arrow can work really well also. BUT it may be illegal in many public places. And in almost all cases I can think of it does entail inherent dangers to nearby people and property. My original thought was that ideally you could find someone at the model-airplane club who would accept this as a challenge, and place your antenna for you for free. I think every man with a hobby likes to see that hobby produce something really useful to someone. 73 - Bob, K6KL ------- To: qrp-l Subject: [QRP-L] Antennas In Trees From: Peter West Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2014 07:48:23 -0400 At the weekly 6:30am Saturday breakfast meeting of the Oakville ARC one of the guys handed me a heavy (10-12 oz), soft brightly covered canvas bag. I couldn’t figure out why. Then he told me it was an arborist’s throw bag! Attach a light cord to it and it’s perfect for launching the line 30-40 feet up. Way safer than using a crescent wrench or bow and arrow in an urban park. Online about $20. Best regards, Peter - VE3HG ------